--- id: "pisquared:interview/teodorovicz-thomaz" type: "Pi-Squared interview" title: "Anita McGahan in conversation with Thomaz Teodorovicz" url: "https://pisquared.theburnescenter.org/interviews/teodorovicz-thomaz" date: "2024-07-12" people: ["Anita McGahan","Thomaz Teodorovicz"] summary: "Thomaz Teodorovicz is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Strategy and Innovation at the Copenhagen Business School. Originally from Brazil, Thomaz..." recording: "https://vimeo.com/1007828588" source: "Pi-Squared (pisquared.theburnescenter.org), The Burnes Center for Social Change" licence: "none stated" --- # Anita McGahan in conversation with Thomaz Teodorovicz Thomaz Teodorovicz, Assistant Professor, Copenhagen Business School · 12 July 2024 ## About the guest Thomaz Teodorovicz is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Strategy and Innovation at the Copenhagen Business School. Originally from Brazil, Thomaz is a long-time collaborator of mine and of several other friends who have participated in the PI-squared conversations on private innovation in the public interest. Thomas studies how companies can promote human development through educational and developmental initiatives that go well beyond what we customarily think of as human-resource management or even human capital development. ## Reflections from the interview Thomaz and I start off by talking about why a company might invest in the general education of a low-income contract worker. He emphasized that, in our study, workers may not have basic skills such as knowing how to calculate percentages and plan their time. Strategy theory doesn’t account for all of the ways in which workers interpret the investment made in them by their firm and the managers they work for. In the context of a contract salesforce, where contract workers are primarily low-income people, the response to the investment by the firm in their knowledge through a training program is very different than what our theory predicts. In this setting, the workers feel that the firm recognizes their potential. Instead of quitting and getting a better job, which is what our theory says might happen, the workers see the education as a foundation of a renewed relationship with their firm. Their attitude is that this is a firm that cares and wants me to achieve my potential. The firm ultimately benefits through retention and improved productivity. That story gets us to talking about the implications for the future of work. Anita mentions that we often focus on AI, machine learning, and productivity enhancement. Our focus is often on remote work and its implications. Thomaz says that he is discouraged by overindexing on productivity in our thinking about remote work. He describes a recent paper that he published with Raj Choudhury and Evan Starr on Tulsa, Oklahoma, where the city works with a private corporation and foundation to create incentives for remote workers to relocate to Tulsa, where they will find all sorts of services that are specifically tailored to their needs. The goal is for Tulsa to become a place where remote workers flourish. Tulsa wants digital nomads to settle down and create roots in the community. The idea is that they will create value locally and socially. Anita loves this paper, and asked Thomaz if she’s thinking the right way about the value that this case study demonstrates. The two together talk about three primary stakeholder groups that benefit. 1. The George Kaiser Family Foundation is seeking to rebuild Tulsa to break poverty traps that are the result of a long history in the city of racialized violence. This Family Foundation seeks to rebuild in ways that will restore the city and its inhabitants in truly meaningful ways. 2. The city itself, which seeks economic development and vibrancy. 3. The workers, who benefit both economically and in their private lives through access to services, community groups, and social interaction. 4. Thomaz described a jubilant interviewee who, through the program, was able to attend her daughter’s soccer practices on a regular basis whereas, previously, those practices were too far away and too inconveniently timed for her attendance. Anita asks Thomaz whether this is a reconceptualization of core ideas initially developed by Jane Jacobs on the importance of communities. The two discuss how this is about the human, social side of remote workers that co-locate. Thomaz emphasizes that, even with remote work, where we are MATTERS. This is a side of remote work that goes way beyond automation, AI, and machine learning. Thomaz describes how, in a recent conversation with co-author Sergio Lazzarini, the benefits of remote work were also framed in terms of their marginal benefits for the local community. In Canada, Sergio created value for his students as a professor, but his impact in his home country of Brazil on students may be even greater than he could create in Canada. The conversation pointed to the opportunity for a much deeper set of reflections on how value gets created for different stakeholder groups through the movement of workers between different places, including through remote work. Thomaz also raised the critical point that relocation and remoteness can also destroy relationships and dislocate workers from their “social contracts,” by which he means worker friendships and understandings. He said that, in the end, there are tradeoffs, and we need to understand them. He referred to Professor Sarah Kaplan’s book called *The 360 Corporation*, and even picked up a copy of the book that he keeps at the foot of his desk for quick reference on these matters. Anita asks Thomaz for a final word for you on the issue of remote work and human development. Here’s what Thomaz says: Social impact is not just about governments. Its about anyone who wants to create value. Companies are critical. We have to embrace working together to find solutions to important problems. Thank you, Thomaz! ## Related resources - [Thomaz’s Research Profile at Copenhagen Business School](https://www.cbs.dk/en/research/departments-and-centres/department-of-strategy-and-innovation/staff/ttsi) - [Thomaz’s Personal Website](https://teodorovicz.com/) - [Paper on Tulsa OK (by Thomaz, Raj Choudhury, and Evan Starr)](https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/10.1287/orsc.2023.17712) - [Paper on Human-Capital Development (with Sandro Cabral, Sergio Lazzarini, and Anita)](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/smj.3571) - [Paper on Public vs. Private Organization Performance (with Sandro Cabral, Sergio Lazzarini, and Leandro Nardi)](https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/orsc.2022.1634?af=R&journalCode=orsc) - [Sarah Kaplan’s Book: *The 360 Corporation* (cited by Thomaz)](https://www.amazon.com/360%C2%B0-Corporation-Stakeholder-Trade-offs-Transformation/dp/1503607976) - [Sarah Kaplan’s Book: *The 360 Corporation* (Alternative Link)](https://sarahkaplan.info/the360corporation/) ## Recording Video: https://vimeo.com/1007828588 ## Category [Excellence](https://pisquared.theburnescenter.org/category/excellence) * * * Original page: https://pisquared.theburnescenter.org/interviews/teodorovicz-thomaz · Licence: none stated