Wes, you are one of the pioneers in our field on the study of the pressures on firms to modernize through the adoption of new technologies – such as the Internet – to solve complex social problems.  What are your feelings now about the energy transition.

Wes expressed extraordinary optimism about the energy transition!    He is optimistic now for reasons that are different from when he started his career.  At this stage, he feels that we have the technologies that we need to move the electricity systems forward.   And we have the social values and commitment.  What we now need are the regulatory frameworks and the political will.   He sees the impetus to move forward in those areas all around the world – except in the U.S. right now.

As someone who has long admired your work, it always surprised me somewhat that one of the most powerful routes to transformation of the electric power industry was through the Internet rather than through, for example, nuclear or hydro or wind.   Why was the Internet so important to the transformation of the electricity business?

Wes expressed that the core challenge is in aligning with what people value.  What gives Wes hope is that the technology has caught up, and that values are generally in alignment.   The issue is the political environment, particularly in the US.  

Anita asked Wes about the organizational and industrial transformations that have to occur over the coming years for the transition to occur.  Wes feels that we are there in vehicles.   The challenge is of course government policy.  But he’s optimistic.

Where is optimism may not be fully aligned with the reality is in generation around nuclear.   He sees a great deal of work that needs to be done.  But it can happen.

You are a scholar of both social entrepreneurship and agile innovation – teaching entire courses on each of these topics.   Does agile innovation work to get us where we need to go?

Wes sees agile innovation as very difficult in nuclear because mistakes are so costly.  The adaptation cycles in nuclear need to be longer than we can achieve with agile.  The two things that are the greatest impediments:  Overcoming the fragility of nuclear; and opening up new regulatory frameworks that acknowledge that reality

Much of your work as well has dealt with political fragmentation and the fragility of states and of regulatory systems in industry structure.   What has been your program in this area, and what have you found?

Wes is a big believer in social movements and collective action in changing norms.   We now have great tools available on the Internet for organizing ourselves.  We can get more grassroots change.   We can exercise the power of the public to accomplish change at scale.

Wes’s work on Maquiladora in Mexico has demonstrated the power of activating the public in support of social change.  

He sees problems, but is hopeful that we can overcome them.    A recent paper was motivated by the observation that people want to purchase products (although not services to the same degree) that are produced by firms that share values of environmental preservation and sustainability.    This scholarship shows that, in a matched set of B-Corps and for-profit firms, customer satisfaction is greatly affected by customer understanding of the producer as a B-Corp.   Employee satisfaction in B-Corps is similarly enhanced.   And the effect is observable in an experiment in which students prefer ice cream that they believe is produced by B-Corps (and B-Corp-similar firms) as creamier and better-tasting even though it’s the same physical product as what was offered by a for-profit company.