Anita began the conversation by asking Jerry about his most recent book:  Why and how should we tame corporate power in the 21^st century?

Jerry’s response focused on the enormous power of seven large tech companies that account for about 35% of the value of publicly traded firms in the stock market, and which wield enormous power and influence over our lives.   He gave several examples of how, including through data manipulation, through access to social-media platforms, and through control over the ways we communicate with each other.  The legislation on the books in the United States – such as the Clayton Act designed to stem trusts – emerged from an earlier era, and so questions arise as to whether it can be effective in curtailing potential abuses.

Anita asked Jerry whether the very nature of power itself is changing.

Jerry’s thoughtful response had at its heart the insight that government is no longer fully equipped – either legislatively or through the executive – to manage and constrain companies in ways that are appropriate for our era.  We’ve got too many supra-national problems such as climate change coupled with too much intra-country diversity of views for the federal government, particularly in the US, to address the public interest in ways that will be effective.

But the biggest issue on the table is:  How do we assure that the public interest is preserved and supported?  Are we confident that even government is equipped to deal with the problems we face at scale.

Anita asked Jerry to imagine that, through some sort of supernatural act, he’s put in charge of everything everywhere all at once.  What would he do?

Jerry sees a paradox between two levels of required intervention.  The first is large-scale authoritative intervention to deal with problems such as climate, which are super-national and intensive emergencies.  The second is small-scale preservation of democracy so as to enable quality of life through local voice in communities.   We need both, he says.

This got us into a discussion about institutional innovation.  

Anita and Jerry agreed to continue their conversation including at an institutions conference next week that both will be attending.  What we need are new types of institutions that may initially look somewhat corporate but which have the capacity to deal with the kinds of big problems that Jerry has described, including challenges to democracy.   Where do we go from here?  It’s hard to know, but we have to be creative…

Jerry got the last word.  What he wants you to know is that big tech companies are quite different from any other type of corporation in history.   It’s critical to understand the implications of that fact for the future of both democracy and capitalism.