---
id: "pisquared:interview/daphne-baldassari"
type: "Pi-Squared interview"
title: "Anita McGahan in conversation with Daphné Baldassari"
url: "https://pisquared.theburnescenter.org/interviews/daphne-baldassari"
date: "2024-06-28"
people: ["Anita McGahan","Daphné Baldassari"]
summary: "Daphné Baldassari is an Assistant Professor at the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business, and holds a PhD in Strategic Management..."
recording: "https://vimeo.com/1007827198"
source: "Pi-Squared (pisquared.theburnescenter.org), The Burnes Center for Social Change"
licence: "none stated"
---

# Anita McGahan in conversation with Daphné Baldassari

Daphné Baldassari, Assistant Professor at the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business · 28 June 2024

## About the guest

Daphné Baldassari is an Assistant Professor at the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business, and holds a PhD in Strategic Management from the Rotman School of Management, University of Toronto. Her research focuses on understanding the mechanisms helping improve the efficacy of diversity interventions and foster gender equality within organizations. More specifically, she investigates whether and how structural interventions disrupt gender inequality within organizations at the crossroad between strategy and behavioural economics. She has a MS with high honors in Engineering from Mines ParisTech and a MS with high honors in Economics from Paris School of Economics.

## Reflections from the interview

Daphne emphasizes the mistakes we make in understanding what works to accomplish change in social systems. Her work on the Oscars So White movement and on other interventions highlights the importance of structural impediments to change. She gives an example of an assumption that women don’t want to compete. She cites a paper showing that there are no intrinsic differences between women and men in wanting to compete! The differences are in the context in which women and men are given opportunities in which competition is relevant. Daphne also explains the Oscars So White movement and the ways in which it led to mixed results on inclusion. She also describes her work on Ontario’s Comply or Explain regulation, and the unexpected outcomes that arose.

Our conversation ended on the question of why the achievement of change in the achievement of structural change to eliminate inequality is so tough. Daphne’s response pointed to the lack of understanding we have of how these inequalities actually arise. We don’t know how to fix them because we don’t really understand why they arise in the first place. Many of the problems that we seek to address are deeply embedded historically and involve subtle behaviors that are not well understood.

Anita came away from the interview full of admiration for Daphne for her commitment to clear thinking and deep engagement with complicated problems for which there is no easy answer. Daphne wants us to move away from blame and toward changing the context. She is, in the end, optimistic, and that makes Anita optimistic too.

## Related resources

- [Daphne’s Personal Website](https://www.daphnebaldassari.com/)
- [USC Marshall School - Management and Organizations](https://www.marshall.usc.edu/departments/management-and-organization)
- [Institute for Gender and the Economy Profile](https://www.gendereconomy.org/team/daphne-baldassari-2/)
- [Daphne’s Awards at the 2023 Strategic Management Society](https://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/news-events-and-ideas/news-and-stories/2023/october/20231005/)

## Recording

Video: https://vimeo.com/1007827198

## Category

[Sustainability](https://pisquared.theburnescenter.org/category/sustainability)

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Original page: https://pisquared.theburnescenter.org/interviews/daphne-baldassari · Licence: none stated